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Infidel Edition
01-07-2012, 02:01 PM
I've come across a couple mid 80's K5 references to the floor of the bed.
And I've come across replacing the entire TUB of the 70 (firewall to tailgate).

What I want to know is ~ is it easier to replace the entire bed section of the tub?
Or can I simply unbolt the floor (I see the bolts clearly / and I understand there is likly a spot weld or a million ** Though I see none) and replace just the floor sheet?

The bed of the donor blazer is in EXCELLENT SHAPE. But it's cab area is crap and the firewall is in dire need of ~ well, it's dead.
And the rear outter section of the recipient blazer is good other than the floor of the bed...
If I can just unbolt and lift the floor out of the bed of the tub without cutting any frame sections or other supports, it seems that would be easier.
Plus, that'd keep the front fenders and the back fenders original...

whitetailslayer
01-07-2012, 02:31 PM
Just slow down & do your research bro. You will find that there are more spot welds than you think. What are You doing? A factory restoration? Lets see a pic or two of how bad the recipient floor is and how good the donor is THEN we can better help you make your decision as to which repair will be best. It reads as if you should just fix the floor in the recipient with patch panels from the donor.

trav0302
01-07-2012, 02:38 PM
so far X2 ^ but we need pics its hard to figure out what your trying to tell us. Pics bro! Thats the key!

sevenn07
01-07-2012, 02:42 PM
Just slow down & do your research bro. You will find that there are more spot welds than you think. What are You doing? A factory restoration? Lets see a pic or two of how bad the recipient floor is and how good the donor is THEN we can better help you make your decision as to which repair will be best. It reads as if you should just fix the floor in the recipient with patch panels from the donor.

I agree!
I think your best bet would be first to clean up the affected areas and make sure you know what all you have to replace. Then plan on double that by the time you are through. Then do some good research. there are many good threads on this. Spectreblazer is a good example. But there are many others. The spot welds are all around the sides of the bed along with supports that run under the bed.

70-K5
01-07-2012, 04:18 PM
No threads on gen1 floor replacement...

Infidel Edition
01-07-2012, 06:11 PM
I'm going to try to get out there tomorrow.
I'll take a couple good pics of each and post them.

Bigking
01-07-2012, 11:48 PM
I replaced the whole rear floor on my 82 years ago. Ordered the floor from LMC. Made measurements then started cutting,

Infidel Edition
01-09-2012, 01:57 AM
OK. In looking at them... the pic's don't really show all...
The black blazer is the keeper / orange is donor.
First, I'll post the pics of the black blazer here

Infidel Edition
01-09-2012, 02:00 AM
And these are from the donor tub / tub floor.

I think the under side (structurally speaking vs. just the floor pan) is same either way.
So... would it be better to do a full tub swap?
Or just the floor of the tub?

Infidel Edition
01-09-2012, 02:02 AM
Forgot to mention, the only real whole on the orange tub is a small dollar sized space where I think he may have been thinking of making a gas tank access point.
... the black bed has SEVERAL wholes from the wheel wells back.

** maybe just replace the floor from that portion back?

Zelda
01-09-2012, 02:34 PM
Why does it look like the orange donor is in better shape than the black recipient?
You might want to rethink your plans. Take out some paper and write down the repairs on both body tubs. Go through and estimate the cost your looking at. If your going to replace the rockers on the black tub anyway you might be further a head using the one that has a solid rear. IMO Let see i pic of that firewall. Not sure what you mean by dead.

70-K5
01-09-2012, 03:11 PM
Not sure what you mean by dead.

I've seen it in person... It's dead... There is no bringing it back to life.

Infidel Edition
01-09-2012, 06:05 PM
The orange blazer is great from the step back (basically where the cab steps up into the bed) only.
The cab floor up through the firewall is basically crapped out.
... thus it's the donor vs. the recipient :o)

Zelda
01-09-2012, 06:32 PM
Are they good enough where you could cut them in half and weld them together? Just the body, not the frame. Without seeing them It's a guess. My friend just did that with a Buick T-Type. Turned out sweet. Now has a very solid body on it. If you can read a ruler and weld, it can be done. Just throwing in another option.

Infidel Edition
01-09-2012, 10:26 PM
Are they good enough where you could cut them in half and weld them together? Just the body, not the frame. Without seeing them It's a guess. My friend just did that with a Buick T-Type. Turned out sweet. Now has a very solid body on it. If you can read a ruler and weld, it can be done. Just throwing in another option.

That's kind of where I was heading with my question.
The back fender sections on the black blazer are "livable" ~ as I can do the rust repair on the 2 sections between the doors and rear wheels.
And the bed of the orange blazer is in pretty good shape ~ only the small rust damage behind the drivers side rear wheel.

But to swap the tubs, I need to weld in a couple support sections to keep it straight, cut the body sections (which to do a tub swap, I believe requires some frame cutting), and then line up the donor bed with the recipient cab section (using the shim's to align the doors).
VS. if I could pull just the floor of the bed and swap that... I wouldn't have to do as much cut and paste to align things after.
... not sure how hard aligning the frame again is.

Zelda
01-10-2012, 01:09 AM
What you do is take a lot of measurements of key parts of the tub. That would be door openings, body mounting holes, body lines, ect. Make you cut where there is very good metal across the floor. Get brand new body mounts, mount the rear portion because that's the biggest part. Don't be afraid of welding on braces to keep the body plumb with each other. It's not that bad really. Just take your time to get the measurements and have good cuts.
One key thing I would do is level your frame on jackstands before you cut on the receiving tub. That will help when putting back together. Don't be afraid of using a level.

Note: you are not cutting into the frame anywhere! You are just working on the body tub.

Infidel Edition
01-10-2012, 03:34 AM
??^??
OK. so you said level the frame on jackstands before cutting on the receiving tub.
~ so bust out a solid support on each corner of the chassis and make the chassis level?
... or make the bed of the tub level?

Then, you note, I won't be cutting into the frame anywhere.
~ maybe I'm thinking different in my brain ... but do you mean frame? or chassis?
Isn't there a skeletal frame for the entire tub *firewall back to tailgate? ... so to separate the 'cab' section from the 'bed' section, I would have to cut the frame.
Wouldn't I?
**I'll try to find a good pic and add cut point questions...

Infidel Edition
01-10-2012, 03:42 AM
OK. So, the inside of the bed fender and above the rocker.
across the 'step' / front of the floor of the bed.
and the seam above the bed floor driver side below the upright section of the inner fender?

Does the 'step' section of the cab area remain as part of the cab?
...or would that pull out with the bed?

Infidel Edition
01-10-2012, 02:52 PM
Another question...
The step from the 'cab' floor up to the 'bed' floor ~ would I cut the weld connecting that section to the cab floor? Or would I cut the weld connecting that section to the bed floor?

Logic being, I am also replacing the cab floor with a donor floor cut out of a '71 C-10 ... and will be doing that portion of the floor replacement first ~ and want to make the best cutting decisions before learning that I should have cut the "other section".
... if you know what I mean :)

70-K5
01-10-2012, 02:59 PM
??^??
OK. so you said level the frame on jackstands before cutting on the receiving tub.
~ so bust out a solid support on each corner of the chassis and make the chassis level?
... or make the bed of the tub level?

Then, you note, I won't be cutting into the frame anywhere.
~ maybe I'm thinking different in my brain ... but do you mean frame? or chassis?
Isn't there a skeletal frame for the entire tub *firewall back to tailgate? ... so to separate the 'cab' section from the 'bed' section, I would have to cut the frame.
Wouldn't I?
**I'll try to find a good pic and add cut point questions...

When he said frame... he meant the frame rails...

When you say frame you mean the small structural pieces that are attached to the body panels to add rigidity.

70-K5
01-10-2012, 03:08 PM
It makes sense to me to cut the bed floor. I would swap the beds too before you replace the floor. Much easier to trim the floor to fit than it would be to trim the bed to fit the floor.

Also, leave the vertical piece attached to the bed, the floor you are replacing will not have this piece. I would think you would want to take the majority of the door pillar/rocker too.

http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad329/c-code71/Floorcut.jpg

Zelda
01-10-2012, 03:46 PM
How are the rocker panels? Could you take a pic standing on a ladder or raised above the rear of the tub looking towards the dash including the floor. These pics are showing everything but what I want to see. Then mark on the pic where the body mounts are. Clear all the shit out of there too. Lets see the donor front, and the floor you said you want to use. We can't help unless we see the whole picture of all the parts -N-pieces. I would hate to give bad advice only to make more work for you.
Definitions:
Frame = consists of two parallel C-shaped rails held together by cross members.
Body or Tub = The sheet metal or body panels welded or bolted together.

Infidel Edition
01-10-2012, 08:12 PM
It'll be Friday before I can get back over there to take the other pic's.
But I already had posted a note about the donor floor "cab" section in my 'work-in-progress' thread.

9105 9106

After cutting away the extra firewall section (still need to grid the spot welds to pull the old metal from the seam of the front of the floor) I used a wire wheel on my grinder to clean up the top... and then rust reformer.
I'll still need to patch a little here and a little there ... but it won't cost $$$ that I don't really have. Just time and a MIG.
I'm reusing the inner cab supports (run front to back on each side), but have ordered replacement front cab supports and replacement inner rocker panels for both sides.

The firewall/kickpanel on the passenger side is rusted to &(*^ on the orange tub.
But it's in good shape on the black tub.
** So, looking at this from the other end of the question. ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL, since I'm already replacing the cab floor.
Would it be easier to swap the firewall / dash / windshield from the black tub to the orange tub?
Or will it still be easier to swap the orange bed to the black tub?

** I believe the rocker panels are good on either and neither chassis is better than the other ~ save where ***** cut away a little here and there to add his headers that didn't fit anyway! ... The orange blazer chassis is cut free~

~ I'll take pic's on Friday...

70-K5
01-10-2012, 08:28 PM
I'd figure out how to keep the vin off the 69, would make it more valuable...

NightKrwlr
01-10-2012, 08:30 PM
swapping just the beds is going to be easiest

Infidel Edition
01-10-2012, 10:14 PM
I'd figure out how to keep the vin off the 69, would make it more valuable...

Since it's not licensed in OR yet, they need to do the DMV inspection ~ so I need the VIN plate on the bed to match the stamp on the frame... Don't I?
... or does OR just check the VIN plate?
... I have both titles and both tubs w/ VIN plates ~ and both chassis stamped.

Infidel Edition
01-10-2012, 10:17 PM
swapping just the beds is going to be easiest

So, once I pull the bed off ... and the cab floor pan.
What's remaining to support the firewall/dash/windshield?
... I pulled the front end off (fenders / wheel wells / radiator upright) to remove the engine and work on the front suspension.

NightKrwlr
01-10-2012, 10:42 PM
I'm still kinda confused about whats going on. You'll just have to build something to support it.

Zelda
01-11-2012, 01:09 AM
If you want the 69 Vin number I would stick with that frame. That way the frame number will match the body vin. Did you say you needed to replace the cab mounts? So you need to fix those mounts before you put those together. Otherwise you might get that cab welded on crooked.

Infidel Edition
01-11-2012, 02:34 AM
If you want the 69 Vin number I would stick with that frame. That way the frame number will match the body vin. Did you say you needed to replace the cab mounts? So you need to fix those mounts before you put those together. Otherwise you might get that cab welded on crooked.

Not the cab supports as much as the cab floor front supports.
They spot weld in place with the inner tip connecting to the bolt where the cab is mounted to the chassis ... and the outter end either bolted or spot welded to the inner rocker panel.

Infidel Edition
01-11-2012, 02:41 AM
I'm still kinda confused about whats going on. You'll just have to build something to support it.

I'm meaning that if I have to build something to support that section (firewall / dash / inner cowl panel / and windshild) ... wouldn't it be just as easy to pull that off and mount it onto the orange blazer as it would be to move the entire bed from the orange blazer to the black one.
~I have 2 blazers and plan on mixing sections of the tubs to make 1 GOOD blazer. Originally, I was thinking that I would just pull the floor of the bed from the orange blazer and bolt it into the black.
But then, someone said it would be easier to swap the entire bed of the tub.
... and while the bed is off the chassis, repair the cab floor :)

Thus, I was asking, if I'm pulling the bed of the blazer and the floor of the cab area... A) what's supporting the remaining section (firewall / dash / windshield) and B) at that point, would it just be easier to swap the front section noted in "A)" to the orange blazer.

... I think it'll all make more sense when I post a bunch of pic's this weekend.
~wish I could break away from work tomorrow for a quick photo shoot

Infidel Edition
01-11-2012, 03:11 AM
OK. I found this diagram in the LMC catalog.
To remove the bed, I have to remove the two pairs of bolts circled at 'B' and 'C'
... that will get the bed removed.

9119

Then, in the process of repairing the floor, I'll also need to remove the pair of bolts at 'A'
... The front is already removed I pulled the hood / fenders / wheel wells / EVERYTHING in prep to work on swapping out the engine and work on cleaning up the suspension.

It's at that point, that I was thinking that it would be just as easy to swap that remaining portion from the black blazer to the orange...
and just leave the orange bed of the tub in place.

In other words, if I'm swapping out the cab area floor either way.
Would it be easier to swap the remaining front section of the cab to the bed of the circled in blue leaving the bed in place...

9120

Or is it still easier to swap the bed from the orange circled in orange to the cab of the black leaving the front in place ~ which doesn't look like there's anything to hold it in place unless I build something.

Is that making more sense? Or am I just confusing myself now?

Eastcoastmat
01-11-2012, 03:59 AM
Wow this thread just blew my mind!

sevenn07
01-11-2012, 04:11 AM
Not gonna lie, I did not harldy read crap in this thread as it seems a bunch of mumbled mess.
Read cores build thread. I think it may answer your questions though.

Zelda
01-11-2012, 10:43 AM
I'm not going to lie . . .
Not everybody has a degree in English, myself included. He's trying to explain as best he can. If you read the thread you could figure that out. What's nice about this place is everybody has a opinion to express. I respect that. Glad you gave some positive input
Where 's this build thread? Be specific and give a URL.

Infidel Edition
01-11-2012, 04:37 PM
I just get a little obsessed on 'braining' out my plan...
Here's the original build thread:
http://www.chevyk5blazer.com/forums/showthread.php?7166-71-Infidel-Edition-...&highlight=

Or at least what was in the URL block.

sevenn07
01-11-2012, 04:41 PM
I'm not going to lie . . .
Not everybody has a degree in English, myself included. He's trying to explain as best he can. If you read the thread you could figure that out. What's nice about this place is everybody has a opinion to express. I respect that. Glad you gave some positive input
Where 's this build thread? Be specific and give a URL.

If you are talking to me, I said I'm just not reading though all the stuff. I have no problem with him putting it out there. But from the few points I've seen here and there, Core's build would be perfect for him to look at.
As for Core's build thread look. It's in the members build thread list. You can find just as well as I can.

70-K5
01-11-2012, 05:09 PM
Alright you Negative-Nacy's... core's build is awesome... remember though, he works with metal for a living, and he could probably make every piece of his blazer by hand.

Zelda
01-12-2012, 12:26 AM
If you are talking to me, I said I'm just not reading though all the stuff. I have no problem with him putting it out there. But from the few points I've seen here and there, Core's build would be perfect for him to look at.
As for Core's build thread look. It's in the members build thread list. You can find just as well as I can.

Thanks for helping a brother out! :rockon_smiley345::rockon_smiley345::rockon_smiley 345:

Infidel Edition
01-12-2012, 09:30 PM
Up front! I'm a machanical N00B ... so forgive the pic's:

1st, the Orange Blazer's tub:
The bed is significantly better / the floor could survive with some GOOD patch work.
But the front of the cab is rusted to *&^%
** The plan was to use the bed of this tub with the cab of the other (plus a cab floor from a C10)

Infidel Edition
01-12-2012, 09:37 PM
And the black tub...
It's in a tent with the shell still on, so there wasn't as much room for pics as the other.
But I hope you can see what you were looking for.
* This front of the cab section is much better than the other:

So, I can either pull the Orange Bed from that tub and put it on the Black Blazer...
... OR I can pull the front of the cab from the Black Blazer and put it on the Orange tub.
** either way, I'm cutting out the floor and putting in the donor cab section floor I cleaned up.
BTW, a body shop guy that I know was the one that recommended using the Orange Tub as the donor TO the Black blazer...

NightKrwlr
01-12-2012, 10:13 PM
use the black tub and put the rear floor of the orange tub in it. simple as that. if you get into grafting metal and making a new firewall, it will not be fun.

Zelda
01-13-2012, 01:21 PM
Looking at these Pic's, If it was me . . . I would use the orange tub and graft the black firewall on it?
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff503/zelda1011/PiecesK5.jpg
This is my plan. First Put in on jack stands and level the body. Then make some bracing before you make the cut's on the receiver. Take lots of measurements of the receiver vehicle and write them down so you can easily identify the measurement. This will aid in lining up the firewall. The cut I would do is leave the rocker panels then come to the center floor brace. That way the weld isn't straight across the floor. When welding it back in it will give it strength. Your basically using the firewall. The orange tub is solid except for the firewall. It doesn't make sense to disturb basically the whole body when you need just the firewall and a portion of the floor. When you cut the firewall from the donor vehicle make sure you leave a lot more of the metal. That way you can cut to fit when installing your firewall. Remember: It's very important to have those measurements. I'm not a professional body man but I've done enough restorations to know what I would do. GOOD LUCK!

Infidel Edition
01-14-2012, 02:23 AM
I'm liking that plan. ~ but wouldn't I want to do the braces from the "section that mirror's the tailgate" side to side on top / + diagonal from top side to lower opposite side?

** Though, I may have a new hitch in the process! I pulled the shell off the black blazer today and set it in the scrap to be heap (it's crapped out and full of cracks).
When I went around to grab something out of the seat, I noticed the passenger side door wouldn't close. The top of the door is now a good inch further back then when the top was on it.

That said, I was going to pull the bed off so I could get at the front floor section better as well as make sure that the chassis is OK. Worst case, I'll maintain the orange chassis as the keeper.
Which would make the firewall (from the white line forward) of the black blazer the donor section to the orange keeper...

THANKS FOR THE ASSIST and GUIDANCE!
This project is WAY bigger than any I've taken on thus far.

Zelda
01-14-2012, 10:27 PM
Some projects do snowball into something larger than we expect. Been there done that! Hang in there and take your time doing it. When you finish it up you can be very proud on what you did and the things you've learned in the process.

Infidel Edition
01-15-2012, 02:31 AM
Some projects do snowball into something larger than we expect. Been there done that! Hang in there and take your time doing it. When you finish it up you can be very proud on what you did and the things you've learned in the process.

Absolutely! and Thank you for the tips and help!

76K5
01-15-2012, 02:55 AM
dang,,,am i toyaly missing things? both tubs look salvagable. i wouldnt have to slightly dunk...and maybe cry...but i'd love to swap my 76 into a first gen tub. wichever way you go is doable from what i see in the pics. in Zelda's pics i'm on board with where he's going. i would skip the braces going fromm mid-door and go straight from rear of door across. or bring the diagnol braces further back. makes sense to brace things but it seems wise to include the rear half in that bracing, i'd probly brace more depending on how long i "thought" it would be frameless, plus a month or two on the safe side.

not a small undertaking but kudo's on where your headed.

70-K5
01-15-2012, 03:04 AM
I think the whole a-pillar down to the rockers might need to be replaced if I remember the damage correctly.

How is the cowl put together? Is there a seam that you can peel stuff apart to replace one piece at a time and ensure all rust is eliminated? This might actually be getting into territory best answered by some of the 67-72 Chevy Trucks website, they would have the expertise to help you go forward with the right direction.

Infidel Edition
01-17-2012, 01:32 AM
I think the whole a-pillar down to the rockers might need to be replaced if I remember the damage correctly.

How is the cowl put together? Is there a seam that you can peel stuff apart to replace one piece at a time and ensure all rust is eliminated? This might actually be getting into territory best answered by some of the 67-72 Chevy Trucks website, they would have the expertise to help you go forward with the right direction.

The cowl does have a seam (just spot welds)... but there's rust under it as well. Tapping at it with a screw driver poked through.

... I was under the belly of the beast today and noticed that after I broke away all the spot welds from the cab floor panel, and removed all the NASTY bolts holding the bed to the chassis ... that the step at the back of the cab floor is actually welded to the cab floor supports.
~ so I'm going to cut a little circle in the step section so I can remove the black bed and get at those areas with a grinder.
Then on the orange bed, I'll cut the 3" section of support that's welded to that step section and grind the support of of it.

My goal for Friday is to pull the beds off both and see what the chassis' look like on each. Then, play army all weekend (reserves are good to get my fix, then back to the real world). And maybe play hookie from work 1 day next week. I'm going to build a make-shift scaffold out of 4 pallets some 2"x4"s and a hand crank wench to lift the bed off the chassis and secure it in the air till I'm ready to play with it.
Fingers crossed, I'll get the orange bed married up with the black front end (and the bastard child floor) by the end of the month.
Though, I may completely fix up the chassis and suspension first ... then fit in the engine and build a semi custom exhaust before putting everything back together.

Infidel Edition
01-28-2012, 10:38 PM
WOW! RUST IS DEATH!
But Dr Frank'nDave gonna resurrect 'er

Pulled most of the floor from under the cab area today.
Found the Right Rocker Box is OK ~ thank god for small miracles ... just surface rust so far.
THE LEFT SIDE WAS ANOTHER STORY!
pocking at it with a stick went through.

Here's some pic's for those that want to see what she looks like with 'er pants off:
9420 After tapping the spot welds, I ground them down and sprayed on some "rest conversion" stuff... so it's roughly like primer now. I'll take some pic's tomorrow showing the spray'd parts.

9419 The front right corner of the rocker box ~ you can see the ground through it!... luckily, I still have the other blazer AND the guy had repaired that side rocker box and floor before giving up hope. So, I have a good replacement in hand.

9418 Passenger side is not bad.

Zelda
01-30-2012, 12:18 AM
Parts vehicles are sometimes the savior. They help a lot.

Infidel Edition
02-19-2012, 06:54 PM
FINALLY got around to pulling the bed off the donor K5.
Hoping to get the bed off the keeper tomorrow.

Needs a little clean-up and I'm not sure what I'm going to coat it with.

trav0302
02-19-2012, 11:37 PM
looks alot of fun!

Zelda
02-20-2012, 12:21 AM
Sweet!